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Thread: Tuning for PD Blowers... Transient Fuel Manifold Volume

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    VIP Member STL_G8GT's Avatar
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    Default Tuning for PD Blowers... Transient Fuel Manifold Volume

    Guys this has been rehashed in a few different places, so there wasn't a logical place to drop it, so here goes...

    When tuning for PD blowers... Maggies, LSAs, etc, under what circumstances do you adjust Manifold Volume under Transient Fuel?

    I ask because if you look at V2s and LSA cars, you'll see their Manifold Volume is set to 13487 for the 1900(1.9l) series blower. But when you look at ZR1 (2300(2.3l) series blower) factory tunes, the volume is actually 10,038, slightly lower than the stock G8 figure, which is 10,040.

    A while back Hartigan85 and a few others were having some open loop lean tip in issues. I solved mine by just richening up OL tables below a certain ECT threshold, but if I blip the throttle while driving, even in closed loop, I do get a lean spike for a split second before it comes around. I don't know that I've paid enough attention to notice if there is hesitation as well, but I'd like to see if I can smooth that transition.

    My current Manifold Volume is the stock G8 value, at 10,040.


    Edit: Part of me thinks that if I go fooling with this, that the Manifold Volume figure will impact other areas of drivability that have already been tuned for/compensated for with other areas.
    Last edited by STL_G8GT; 07-20-2017 at 08:32 AM.
    2009 PBM G8 GT
    Pat G 218/226 & TSP Dual 660s, ARP Bits, DSteck Tuned, Magnacharger Chrome 2300 1:1, RCR Ported/Polished TB, Blower, & L92 Heads w/ LS3 intake valves, Smith Brothers Trunion Bushing Kit, ARH 1 7/8 Magnaflow MidMuff/Solo Axlebacks, RotoFab, VaporWorx PWM 1:1 fuel system, ID1050x injectors
    Mike Norris Motorsports Catchcan, AEM 30-4100, JHP Boost/Fuel Gauge Pod
    TSW Nurburgring Matte Gray 18" w/Nitto 555 & 555R, Satin Black SS Brembo Fronts, BMR Trailing Arms, Pedders Sway Bars, Whiteline Bushings
    Gloss Black Valve Covers, 6k HID, V6 Handles, Interior/License Plate LEDs, Debadged, Holden Black Trim, Polk Dxi, GXP diffusor, a few bits from Crazy Paul

    Originally Posted by TonyKarter
    Anyone who has ever worked on a car has been in your position, and sitting cross-legged on a concrete floor with a dim shop light is its own kind of hell... Chalk it up as one of the rites of passage.
    RIP Charlie - GRRRR8
    RIP Chris Wells - Panzer Leader

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    VIP Member norm8332's Avatar
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    I get this too never did figure it out..Subscribed
    08 G8 GT: MagnaCharger TVS MP1900 10psi, LS9 cam, 72# injectors, Roto-Fab CAI, SLP Headers, Corsa Catback, etc.
    My Garage

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    Vendors Phil@PnP Tech's Avatar
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    I'm experiencing this as well. It will go into PE, be tracking on target for roughly 10 frames... then all of the sudden IPW will start to fall off for a few frames. It will dip about 0.5msec causing a lean spike.

    Airflow climbs steady so it has lead me to believe it's a transient fuel issue. I must have came across the same information as you did about the manifold volume. I'll flash it tomorrow and take it for a spin.
    Phillip M.
    09.5 SBM GT Sports/Premium/Roof

    Engine: Stock Bottom End
    Heads: Stock, LS3 Intake, LY6 Exhaust, Milled
    Cam: BTR IV PD
    Intake: Stock Intake, Stock TB, LS7 MAF, Volant CAI
    Exhaust: 1-7/8 Kooks LT's, Off-Road Pipes, Corsa cat-back
    Fuel: Fore Twin Ti 450's, Vaporworx, E85, Bosch Injectors
    Drivetrain: 6L80, Sonnax
    Suspension: BMR 15" Strange Coilovers
    Wheels/Tires: 15x10 RT-S on 275/60R15 Pro's, 17x5 Weld on M/T 28"
    Ported LSA Blower, 9.55/2.55, 102 TB, Chiller

    High Compression/Boost/E85

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    VIP Member STL_G8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil@PnP Tech View Post
    I'm experiencing this as well. It will go into PE, be tracking on target for roughly 10 frames... then all of the sudden IPW will start to fall off for a few frames. It will dip about 0.5msec causing a lean spike.

    Airflow climbs steady so it has lead me to believe it's a transient fuel issue. I must have came across the same information as you did about the manifold volume. I'll flash it tomorrow and take it for a spin.
    Supposed to rain here tomorrow afternoon so no testing it for me. Let us know how it goes. Otherwise I might be able to get it out Saturday.

    Seeing the zr1 values so low caught me off guard... They must tune around it another way... But of course I've got no idea how.
    2009 PBM G8 GT
    Pat G 218/226 & TSP Dual 660s, ARP Bits, DSteck Tuned, Magnacharger Chrome 2300 1:1, RCR Ported/Polished TB, Blower, & L92 Heads w/ LS3 intake valves, Smith Brothers Trunion Bushing Kit, ARH 1 7/8 Magnaflow MidMuff/Solo Axlebacks, RotoFab, VaporWorx PWM 1:1 fuel system, ID1050x injectors
    Mike Norris Motorsports Catchcan, AEM 30-4100, JHP Boost/Fuel Gauge Pod
    TSW Nurburgring Matte Gray 18" w/Nitto 555 & 555R, Satin Black SS Brembo Fronts, BMR Trailing Arms, Pedders Sway Bars, Whiteline Bushings
    Gloss Black Valve Covers, 6k HID, V6 Handles, Interior/License Plate LEDs, Debadged, Holden Black Trim, Polk Dxi, GXP diffusor, a few bits from Crazy Paul

    Originally Posted by TonyKarter
    Anyone who has ever worked on a car has been in your position, and sitting cross-legged on a concrete floor with a dim shop light is its own kind of hell... Chalk it up as one of the rites of passage.
    RIP Charlie - GRRRR8
    RIP Chris Wells - Panzer Leader

  5. #5
    Senior Member Niemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil@PnP Tech View Post
    I'm experiencing this as well. It will go into PE, be tracking on target for roughly 10 frames... then all of the sudden IPW will start to fall off for a few frames. It will dip about 0.5msec causing a lean spike.

    Airflow climbs steady so it has lead me to believe it's a transient fuel issue. I must have came across the same information as you did about the manifold volume. I'll flash it tomorrow and take it for a spin.
    This sounds like the 2.1 second lean spike issue. Make sure you have desoot mode turned off.
    Ported TVS1900 OD cogs 10.5psi | ID850 | Vaporworx CTS-V 1:1 | COMP 219/233 .606"/.605" 113+1 | Ported TB | Pacesetter 1 3/4 LT | Solo Mach X3


  6. #6
    Vendors Phil@PnP Tech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niemer View Post
    This sounds like the 2.1 second lean spike issue. Make sure you have desoot mode turned off.
    I think it wasnt too long after this post I stumbled upon the desoot over on HPT. The lean PE spike has been haunting guys for years it seems.


    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Phillip M.
    09.5 SBM GT Sports/Premium/Roof

    Engine: Stock Bottom End
    Heads: Stock, LS3 Intake, LY6 Exhaust, Milled
    Cam: BTR IV PD
    Intake: Stock Intake, Stock TB, LS7 MAF, Volant CAI
    Exhaust: 1-7/8 Kooks LT's, Off-Road Pipes, Corsa cat-back
    Fuel: Fore Twin Ti 450's, Vaporworx, E85, Bosch Injectors
    Drivetrain: 6L80, Sonnax
    Suspension: BMR 15" Strange Coilovers
    Wheels/Tires: 15x10 RT-S on 275/60R15 Pro's, 17x5 Weld on M/T 28"
    Ported LSA Blower, 9.55/2.55, 102 TB, Chiller

    High Compression/Boost/E85

  7. #7
    Senior Member Niemer's Avatar
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    Tell me about it, I think I started the first thread over there about it in 2013 and it finally got solved 4 years later.
    Ported TVS1900 OD cogs 10.5psi | ID850 | Vaporworx CTS-V 1:1 | COMP 219/233 .606"/.605" 113+1 | Ported TB | Pacesetter 1 3/4 LT | Solo Mach X3


  8. #8
    VIP Member norm8332's Avatar
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    This is good to know, I updated my software and will be trying this in the spring, but this only affects PE tip-in correct? I have a non-PE from a stop tip-in issue with a lean spike also.
    08 G8 GT: MagnaCharger TVS MP1900 10psi, LS9 cam, 72# injectors, Roto-Fab CAI, SLP Headers, Corsa Catback, etc.
    My Garage

  9. #9
    VIP Member norm8332's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil@PnP Tech View Post
    I think it wasnt too long after this post I stumbled upon the desoot over on HPT. The lean PE spike has been haunting guys for years it seems.


    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

    This did a great job at stabilizing the PE mode through the RPM range, but I'm still trying to locate the cause of non-PE tip-in knock I get. Light throttle lean tip-in without engaging the blower, and lean tip-in knock prior to PE mode. Anyone know if this is something addressed by the manifold volume settings?

    I also never tracked down why I get a large lean spike when shifting from reverse to drive when trying to go. After backing up and putting into drive, the first tip-in is a huge lean spike and it actually bogs for a second.
    Last edited by norm8332; 05-25-2018 at 04:54 PM.
    08 G8 GT: MagnaCharger TVS MP1900 10psi, LS9 cam, 72# injectors, Roto-Fab CAI, SLP Headers, Corsa Catback, etc.
    My Garage

  10. #10
    Vendors Phil@PnP Tech's Avatar
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    Is it burst knock?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Phillip M.
    09.5 SBM GT Sports/Premium/Roof

    Engine: Stock Bottom End
    Heads: Stock, LS3 Intake, LY6 Exhaust, Milled
    Cam: BTR IV PD
    Intake: Stock Intake, Stock TB, LS7 MAF, Volant CAI
    Exhaust: 1-7/8 Kooks LT's, Off-Road Pipes, Corsa cat-back
    Fuel: Fore Twin Ti 450's, Vaporworx, E85, Bosch Injectors
    Drivetrain: 6L80, Sonnax
    Suspension: BMR 15" Strange Coilovers
    Wheels/Tires: 15x10 RT-S on 275/60R15 Pro's, 17x5 Weld on M/T 28"
    Ported LSA Blower, 9.55/2.55, 102 TB, Chiller

    High Compression/Boost/E85

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